In this vlog entry, I bring up the subject of the deaf children and language development. It's a subject that has been heavily discussed in the Deaf Blogosphere in the last couple weeks. I share my opinion and some of my life experiences in language development. After viewing the vlog entry, feel free to discuss the subject here on my blog. I’m looking forward to some of what you have to share.
I want to apologize for not captioning my vlog. I may caption it as soon as I get the chance to. Captioning is a time-consuming process. This is a lengthy vlog entry and I wanted to get this out as soon as possible. Hope some of the non-signers will quite understand and accept my apology.
Update: I just uploaded the subtitles. You should be able to view it with subtitles now if you wish to.
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2/10/2007 9:36 PM
Thanks for sharing (and for the captions), it sounds serious. If all doctors can learn about ASL and Deaf Culture before they become dr's it would be a big help.
2/11/2007 12:07 PM
You presented some good points and comparison, however if it is okay for me to be honest with you here, your vlog is very dark and hard to watch you signing and it would be great if you could give us your "eye contact" :-)while signing to us. You have great information to share with us and that is an asset. Thanks somuch!
2/11/2007 12:42 PM
Thanks. Yes, it's perfectly okay for you to be honest here.
About the brightness issue. Apparently this is more of an issue on some CRT monitors that isn't properly calibrated. The brightness here is decent from what I can see. Your monitor's contrast and brightness may need to be heightened a bit more. A lot of people's monitors aren't properly calibrated making the picture appear dark and lack depth.
Anyway, about the 'eye contact'. It's because the monitor is quite large. I watch my recording as it's being done which is why my eye contact is off. I can easily fix this but it would mean the lighting would be even worse. I'll have to get a natural light lamp before I can do that.
Now.... back to the subject. :-)
2/11/2007 8:02 PM
It is very interesting to know your point of view because your family set a very good example by learning to Sign for you. It would be wonderful if all parents did this for their deaf children.
What it boils down to then, is the first 10 or 12 years of a deaf child's life is the most important, English wise.
From my own point of view, deafies that I grew up with and who had terrible English for the first 25 years or so, gradually caught up as they read more and experienced the real world. It just took them longer, but it turned out pretty much the same.
Your vlogs will improve as you work with the lighting, etc. Lots of shadows on this one, some of them obscured your facial expressions. Banjo have you tried "Ott" lighting? I have one for my parrot, for my computer desk and for my husband's desk and they are wonderful!
2/13/2007 2:10 AM
I don't know. I have met so many deaf adults whose writing is ABYSMAL, so much so that you cannot understand what they mean. It's one thing to leave out unessential points of grammar (like who really cares if you conjugate in the wrong tense or something) but some stuff I cannot make sense of. That's a tradgedy. I wish I could show you an example of what I mean.
It is essential that children be able to communicate from an early age, because otherwise you do not acquire language. You are absolutley right about teachers having no sign skills. I used to be in a deaf education program, and you were only required to take up through ASL 4 - much less qualified than two year interpreter programs, and they're imparting KNOWLEDGE of LANGUAGE to the kids. No wonder everything is so jumbled. Sign should be ASL. The fact is that a lot of Deaf Ed teachers are hearing and are not comfortable in ASL, so if the Deaf community was a little more open about helping people learn ASL I think it would get better. You go to deaf events as a hearing person and it's the same thing Banjo was describing about lipreading - you have to stop and ask again what they said, and of course people are irritated by that. OR all the Deaf people are on their Sidekicks and not interested in chatting, so all you're left with are the other hearing people who suck as much as you do. You can't learn and perfect your ASL grammar in a classroom, you really can't. I think Deaf families should rent out rooms to hearing ASL students so that they have to completely function in ASL. Total immersion. That's supposed to be the best way to learn a language. Anyway, it's an interesting thought.
Whew, long-winded comment.
2/13/2007 3:20 PM
I think we are discussing two different things here. Of course there are many deafies with minimum language skills, tho they are proficient in ASL. These are the ones who missed the boat along the way somewhere. There are just as many hearing people who cannot write a decent letter or even address an envelope appropriately but they can communicate!
2/14/2007 12:55 AM
You're right. That was jumbled. What I meant was that I was agreeing with the idea that proficiency in one language (ASL) is the best support for learning another language (English) instead of a code or a mixture of codes (SEE, etc) like Banjo was saying.
You have a lot of experience in education, so tell me if I'm wrong here. Possibly those people who are fluent ASL users but less than fluent in English learned ASL outside of the classroom, and certainly weren't instructed mainly in ASL.
2/14/2007 3:51 PM
Banjo,
Your vlog can be separated into two different discussions; the quality of deaf education, and the controversy of cochlear implants.
First, the quality of deaf education depends on the families that these kids are being raised in and the access they have to resources. The Deaf are not the only people that struggle with the english barrier, hispanics and asians struggle to get access to equal education in their own language.
As you stated, english is the predominant language in the world and is a crucial tool to have in order to move beyond "low" jobs. However, having worked these "low" jobs, happiness is not derived by what you do, but by your comfort and interactions with society and life. People tend to bond to others with similar circumstances/cultures.
Which bring me to my next point.
With the advent of technology, deafness is becoming less of a stigmata and more of a easy fix. Advances have been made in both linear and digital technology. Catching a deafness at an early age can offset the delay of speech development.
Though it appears that the Deaf culture is growing smaller, we should look at the rise of vlogs and internet communication between people of all hearing loss, each seeking or giving wisdom about understanding their own hearing identities. I can use myself as an example. Even though I am raised as SEE2 and entirely english proficient, I am still seeking a part of me that is missing my natural language of understanding through my eyes and not my ears. Having these forums and access to ASL resources allow me to develop a more deaf related identity and seek solace in a world that is primarily confusing and hard to understand. I do enjoy hearing and communicating with the hearing world, but sometimes it gets to be too tiring having to dicipher the spoken language. There are days when I just want to leave my hearing aids out and communicate via my hands.
Echo
Echo
2/15/2007 6:59 PM
Echo, you're right. It always depend on families. I can see where the problem lies when it come to the families these children are raised in.
Well, it's true that there's the other minorities who struggle with English. Though that's for them to deal with. We deal with deaf children with literacy problems mainly because we're deaf and know how common of a problem it is within the community.
Myself, I think one of the best ways to explore a problem is to have people with the same conditions/experiences involved. However, the barrier is the government. They are responsible for us and it's their duty to listen to their people.
It doesn't seem like they are listening. They just keep on cutting the school budgts, sweep the scandals under the rug and go on with their dirty business without getting caught.
While it may be true that the Deaf culture is shrinking, we're also bonding more in a sense over the Internet. Especially with the amount of vlogs that we've seen over the last few months.
More tightly knitted is what it's looking like and people eventually will have to accept the hard truth is that not everybody share the same sentiments. Many of these people will have to learn how to truly diversify their communities if they want to keep the culture alive.
Just my two cents.
2/16/2007 5:10 AM
The video was excellent and thanks for the titles too ! I think the basic issue is the statement 'ASL is the natural language of the (American), deaf.
This may or may not be true that's for Americans to say, but the issue of child communications is NOT,just to teach them to be better or more complete ASL users, but to help them also to communicate to hearing people a bit easier.
The trend then is to 'alter' some signs that are probably more easily understood by hearing, this is no bad thing, it opens access doors, if only by a little bit. Speed is not essential, OK ASL is faster FOR The ASL user it's still all Greek to hearing people.
We may teach a French child to speak fluent and accurate French,but throw them into a totally German situation they will struggle. So will deaf if they simply approach Hearing people who can't sign and use ASL at them,you ARE going to struggle.
Keeping ASL and culture 'pure' is one thing, but it doesn't help to make issue, because HEARING don't know it. We debate this in the UK too, and the thinking is deaf children are simply NOT taught how to communicate with hearing on any realistic level, and at Further Education, there are no continuing communication skills taught either, maionly because the little inter-action with hearing they did at school, is no longer followed up after.
Good for the deaf world, BAD for accessibility. So they spend the rest of their lives despertael campaigniong for all hearing to comply to their way of ASL, I think it is a battle you can't win... Martydom gets really boring after the first 100 years..... Milan ? no, deaf have to move on and get with it.
Parnets will excersize choices, you may not like those, but it's no-ones business except theirs.
2/16/2007 5:38 AM
Note the title, 'ASL & English: A Hybrid Lifestyle'.
I'm promoting bilingualism in children's education. ASL and English should be equal since they are both languages.
I'm not saying ASL is 'natural'. It feels 'natural' to many deaf people in Canada and the USA while it feel more like work for many to speak English.
I have no problem with English, I can communicate with the hearing using English. I don't use ASL with most hearing people. I use ASL with people who are able to sign or are fluent in ASL, I know quite a lot of ASL users.
Parents are free to make choices for their children, but you do have to realize that many of these choices were due to misinformation and doctors often lack the education on how to raise a deaf child.
Of course, it's nobody's business what a parent do with its child. I'm just sharing my opinion based on my experience and others'. I didn't say anything about not liking it. I'm a believer in freedom of choices. Though there's always the consequences of making bad choices.
Nobody's asking the hearing to learn ASL. I'm not asking anyone here to learn ASL. I don't know where you got that impression. I'm talking about deaf education and the importance of bilingualism.
I'm fluent in both ASL and English, it's something to be proud of. I have a good life as far I am concerned. I'm not struggling to make a living, a good education is the key to a bright future.
Altering a language is a form of manipulation. Abusing English isn't tolerated in schools. Most teachers won't accept slang words in essays.
So why manipulate ASL?
The reason why it's not right to manipulate ASL is because it will confuse the children because people everywhere else will be signing differently because of their alternations to the language.
I'm sorry, but I think you misunderstood what I was talking about. The remark about martyrdom really threw me off because it had nothing to do what what I discussed in the vlog.
Just because the hearing may not be aware of us doesn't mean we should submit to them. What you're suggesting is that they are superior to us and that we are second-class citizens.
At least that's the first impression you're making here.
2/16/2007 10:35 AM
Probably my mis-spelt first few years as a hearing person Banjo ! I Just think it is down to the parents, you agreed, but then suggest they may be making 'bad choices' via misinformation on no-information, surely that's subjective ? Perhaps parents have looked at ASL options and decided it's not for their child ?
How do you decide if they have had enough 'information' to make a decision ? a child is atthe start of things, not like us already gone through it,we have no real idea how things may pan out for others.
I think too many of us (Me too I suppose !), are hung up on the crap we had. That is not to say deaf children now get the same rough deal.
People could construe that as 'yeah right a good choice is to agree with an ASL or an BSL option' ? We all live in a hearing world,a deaf child needs everything it can get to communicate as ability dictates to mainstream.
I was confused too when you stated SSE1/2 etc, I don't know what that means, but I am ASSUMING it doesn't mean ASL ? As it isn't ASL then there is nothing intrinsically ASL being altered is there ?
Here SE is a stand alone sign form (there's bits here and there of BSL but basically it reflects the hearing written and spoken language). BSL comes later (It IS taught),at about teen years.
The argument is that until you can acquire English to some reasonable level, then, you can't learn BSL properly (!), a contentious idea I suppose. The overwhelming view is that BSL FIRST, limits, not advances deaf options regarding mainstream, so you are right in that it pays no regard really to culture as such, because it sees the sign 'language' as a 'tool' for communication, just one amongst many.
If we are to answer questions properly regarding access to mainstream, then ASL/BSL alone has never proven itself as enough.... E.G. If hearing have to learn ASL to get to you, you have to learn... what to get to them ? NOTHING. So where is the determination by deaf to attain other means as well As ASL/BSL to make themselves understood ?
I doubt most want to be dependant on interpreters for the rest of their life. The fact most stay with peers is perhaps an opt out ? a sideays move ?
2/16/2007 2:23 PM
Hmm, I could not resist a comment directed to: "Anonymous". I have been deaf for over 60 years and never used an interpreter until just recently, when I began to take advantage of the ADA Law. I did not need a 'terp, and neither do many other deafies. But why not use them if it is a law and they are available? And if we do not use ASL with the interpreter, what should we use???
2/16/2007 3:05 PM
I don't know why people argue over the Deaf using English or ASL to communicate. It always seems to me that one thing is overlooked in these arguments (at least among hearing people.)
Deaf people can't hear.
English is a spoken language.
Really, enough said! Of course written English is a different story. Everyone should know how to read and write competently in English.
On the flipside, everyone should learn some ASL. I realize it's not going to happen, but it's a great language becuase it's in a different modality. There are situations where signing is a better option for communication than speaking - loud concerts, across a store, when you want to gossip about someone you're afraid might overhear you...
-- Katie
2/17/2007 3:50 AM
I think it's pretty basic for many, not wanting 'dependency' on others. Needing a terp, necessary for many, still suggests dependency. I suppose in the scheme of things we are suggesting deaf people learn more lip-reading or something, and definitely hone deaf-hearing skills after education too, because there is a full stop after..
In an ideal world hearing people/mainstream would acquire some sign, pessimistically I can't see that happening. I live in the UK and the opportunity to even meet sign users by hearing/mainstream is very limited, the 'community' simply or very rarely, goes outside itself.
You cannot promote deaf awareness from an isolated standpoint. Is it catch 22 ? or the basic reality, deaf with signing and culture really are quite happy where they are ? not really into 'access' in it's truest form, i.e. integration ?
Deafness is a huge barrier, I get a feeling most have accepted it, and set up alternatives they are happy with. Now there is to some extent, wider appreciation of deaf people and sign language, the 'community' has gone defensive and resisting, anyone know why ?
We all read ASL is being 'changed' and things, is this because as a stand-alone DEAF language, it has to accommodate hearing people, who cannot acquire pure ASL because it is a 'deaf' thing ? after all, deaf ASL users are the biggest critics of hearies using ASL.
In the UK this takes the form of attacking sign classes for hearies for not being 'pure' enough. But hearies have to double up in translation, deaf don't. Horses for courses ?
I put it, many of the deaf in the community want no part of the mainstream via 'integration', they just want to enhance what they have now... I've read thousands of sign and culture issues, I have read next to no, campaigns that states deaf people want to integrate, deafness seems rather too handy as an excuse.
Access is supposed to open doors, but you are expected to go through the doors,not just look at them. This is the hearing people's assumption where access is given, the door is open, why, aren't you coming through ?
It's taking the access mainstream reluctantly gives (We know !), but offering nothing in return. My hearing friend said "Even when we learn sign language, we KNOW we are no nearer to deaf emerging than we were before, we can see they don't really want in..."
True ?
Incidentally, I'm MM. For some reason it goes pear-shaped if I try google/blogger or other ! Anon aint me !