I'm not going to make a big of commentary out of this. As many of you may know, it was brought to everybody's attention that the DeafRead team had decided to stop publishing blog entries from Cochlear Implant Online over allegations of Rachel Chaikof failing to disclose that Cochlear Awareness Network (CAN) is owned by Cochlear Americas. The DeafRead team was aware of Rachel's status as a volunteer for CAN, but they did not know that it was owned by Cochlear Americas until a few days ago. To remind you, I said allegations. So I am not speaking of these allegations as if they are facts.
I only read a little of this and that. From what I could gather, one side is saying DeafRead discriminated against Rachel Chaikof of Cochlear Implant Online. The other side is saying Cochlear Implant Online violated the guidelines. Am I going to support one of the sides? No, not today. I'm just sharing my observations based on what I have been reading up on.
DeafRead is a privately owned website which is exclusively sponsored by Sprint Relay. Tayler Mayer and Jared Evans, the co-founders are fully entitled to do what they want to do with their website. Rachel Chaikof has no say in that part. Nor do I and everybody else.
Joey Baer of Joey Baer's ASL Vlog is paid to advertise some of Sprint Relay's products. Some people tried to use it against DeafRead without realizing that both websites share the same sponsor. They are able to publish Joey Baer's blog and vlog entries because Sprint Relay allows it. However, Amy Efron Cohen's "The Greatest Irony" advertisement was allowed on DeafRead, some people used the advertisement against DeafRead saying it was hypocritical. Below is a word-for-word quote directly from the horse's mouth, Tayler Mayer.
"As a human editor who puts so much work into DeafRead, I wanted to help Amy and knew that it was an one-time thing. I admit my mistake."
To err is human is all I can say in response to the quote. I know there are some people who will not agree with that. Well, guess what? Not everybody can be pleased. Everybody have different opinions of this and that and they are fully entitled to it. I have gotten to know Tayler Mayer over the last couple years. From what I can tell you, he's quite a nice fellow and is a reasonable man to deal with. Maybe some of you don't get that impression, but running a filtered blog aggregator is not an easy task. Especially when it comes to the politics involving ASL, Deaf Culture, Cochlear Implants, Cued Speech and many more. Oh wait, that's what they have to deal with on a daily basis. Politics can get ugly and I mean ugly.
According to Tayler Mayer, they accidentally published an advertisement from Cochlear Implant Online on one occasion. It was for a book that Rachel and her blog partner, Elizabeth worked together on. So the mistakes of advertising are not limited exclusively to their human editors' blogs like some people are implying.
They have made mistakes in the past and it's likely they will continue to make mistakes in the future. But like I said, to err is human. We are all human beings.
The deaf communities around the world are highly diverse. We all come from all walks of life. Yet with the internet, we are constantly dueling it out with each other simply because of the differences in our opinions, philosophies, beliefs and more. Sometimes, we get too personal. Just a tad too personal. Myself, I say what I want to so I can move on. I don't make it a habit to drag on and cling onto the same subject for too long. I feel like a broken record if I keep discussing the same subject over and over.
There is quite a number of bloggers and vloggers with cochlear implants who are published on DeafRead along with the Cued Speech users, Oral-only supporters and more. So, it may be tricky to accuse DeafRead of discriminating the cochlear implant users when the others are being published. If you ask me, I would say DeafRead is a diversified blog aggregator. I like to read a variety of subjects relating to deaf-related topics.
From the very beginning of DeafRead's existence, their goal was to publish deaf-related blog and vlog entries. Nothing else. That is why they are called a filtered blog aggregator. Take it or leave it. Like I said, it is a private website. You don't have to keep using their services if you don't approve of their policies. You can complain, maybe they will listen and take your suggestions, but if they don't, there is not much you can do about it then.
There are some other blog aggregators specifically aimed at the deaf. DeafPulse is one of them. There may be more out there that I am not aware of. Well, now that I mentioned the drama that entailed at DeafRead and Cochlear Implant Online, it also resulted in a new blog aggregator. It was in the works for a while. After DeafRead announced DeafSide, several people objected to it and demanded that their blog links be removed as a political statement. Paotie was one of the first to demand the removal of his blog from DeafRead.
Rachel Chaikof and several other bloggers/vloggers including Joshua Dawson (Paotie), Mike McConnell (Kokonut Pundits), Elizabeth Boschini, Val Blakely collaborated on setting up a new blog aggregator. It is called Deaf Village. Good for them, I applaud their efforts in setting up a blog aggregator. I wish them a lot of good luck. The more blog aggregators we have on the internet, the more sources we can rely on.
Now you can see why I decided to title this blog entry the way I did. It's all drama. It's like a soap opera with new and shocking twists on a daily basis. Only I don't buy into the drama, making a mountain out of a molehill is how I would describe it. The thing is, I always see a lot of negativity toward each other's sides. It's nothing new to me. It's the same old story being retold over and over. I have friends from all walks of life and it's something to treasure. I wish some people would do the same, but I guess that's not going to happen.
I also noticed some threats of lawsuits were being made over the alleged libel and slanderous comments made by Tayler Mayer. That's too litigious for my taste. Not to mention that it has no merits. What about all of the libel and slanderous comments everybody made toward Tayler Mayer over the years? There are plenty of people he could have sued for that. I mean plenty, not just a few.
I might as well sue the sea gulls for taking a dump onto my car if people are going to start suing blog aggregators.
Honest to God, there are so much more important things to talk about than DeafRead and the politics surrounding it. For instance, the human rights in China, the AIDS epidemic all over Africa, the declining quality of education in America and Canada and many more.
Only the problem is, we are too busy getting upset over a molehill on the internet.
Okay, I guess this was quite a lengthy commentary despite what I said in the opening sentence. Apparently I just made a hypocrite out of myself. It's all of the drama that is getting to me.
Oh the drama!
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6/09/2008 5:20 PM
Hmmm... a valid, sane, rational posting. Yup, the Deaf culture is just an anthill compared to the mountains (human rights, AIDS, etc.)
I believe the point of Rachel is the definition of diversity... again and again I have seen at how some commenters fail to show the acceptance of CI, even the ones who don't always understand deaf culture. So it seems DeafRead needs to work on the commenting part.
6/09/2008 5:48 PM
Good post. Thanks for keeping me up to date with that nonsense. That seagulls bit, that was a riot.
The C.I. industry intend to monopolize, therefore, diversity is a misconception. Their drive is maddening. People can buy into this if they want. Rachel is one way, no thanks. Exclusion and slander of ASL that, I have issues with.
6/09/2008 5:57 PM
A person having ci or is oral or using cued speech is accepted by the Deaf Culture.
But it is the people like Rachel, Melissa, Paotie, Jodi, Mike McConnell, Dyniece, Candy, Ben Vess.... no more than ten V/Bloggers having A T T I T U D E problems that most Deaf people are not happy with.
Now those people created DeafVillage aggregator for themselves but look at Deafread, today they still popping up and continue to have the same attitude problem like Deficit Thinkers.
Tayler needs to talk to these people about their attitude problems.
6/09/2008 7:11 PM
if taylor was actually a smart businessman, he would allow anyone to advertise on their blogs and collect a small royalty from them on it ;) More deaf people would blog and more deaf people, including taylor, would make more money.
6/09/2008 7:15 PM
Well, I would prefer revenue-sharing in comparison to royalties, like they do with Revver.
But I don't think it's really a feasible concept at the moment for DeafRead. But again, who knows?
6/09/2008 7:18 PM
"I believe the point of Rachel is the definition of diversity... again and again I have seen at how some commenters fail to show the acceptance of CI, even the ones who don't always understand deaf culture. So it seems DeafRead needs to work on the commenting part."
You will always come across commenters who are dense and ignorant. That's life. I have lost count of how many times people have left these types of comments on my blog.
Oh well.
6/09/2008 7:49 PM
I have observed and do notice that these people really want diversity. It seem many commenters had bad attitude at their blogs. It seems they have more patience too. I think they will make it being diverse at their new site. After all, they are including all deaf people. While other group only focus on ASL and nothing else. I wish them luck.
6/09/2008 8:01 PM
"After all, they are including all deaf people. While other group only focus on ASL and nothing else. I wish them luck."
DeafRead isn't solely focused on ASL. it's more than often that I see CI, CS, AVT, Oralism and more being posted on DeafRead.
6/09/2008 8:03 PM
Banjo writes: "As a human editor who puts so much work into DeafRead, I wanted to help Amy and knew that it was an one-time thing. I admit my mistake."
Would you be kind enough to provide the source to the quote
(vid. supra)?
Merci bcp.
6/09/2008 8:17 PM
Jean Boutcher, the quote came directly from Tayler Mayer in an AIM conversation we held earlier today.
6/09/2008 8:44 PM
Well, Taylor could have sent an email to Rachel, asking her about her volunteering, having private conversation, something like that. I mean, all right, Rachel makes it clear she is not ready to learn ASL... that is fine. But she had every right to be on DeafRead, as much as the rest of us. She did NOT attack NOR slander any v/bloggers prior to being booted off. yes, her voice was and is still a very powerful one and it makes many people uncomfortable, to the point of attacking her in the comments.
I believe it is the commenters who have the power to color v/bloggers negatively or postively. I see that some people, not knowing me well, are quick to label me, put me in the company of Paotie, Mike M., Candy, etc., which I think is immature. So the way I see it, it is the ignorance and the need to side with anyone (me vs you, us vs them, etc.) I see that people keep forgetting that it is all about perspectives... right or wrong? Nope... just perspectives.
Guess it is not an easy job for Taylor, but he could have communicated with Rachel at some length so that this could have been averted. But sometimes things turn out good at the end, like setting up DeafVillage.
6/09/2008 8:54 PM
Banjo,
Bravo, dear one. *waving hands*
one of the best summaries of what's been going on and the most enlightening point of view so far. I'm very impressed. I loved that you pointed out that DeafRead continues to allow CI/Cued Speech/Oral blogs and the removal of Rachel's blog was not because it was about CI's or the desire to get rid of all CI blogs. This certainly helped my thinking.
As for the commenters above who said that Taylor needs to talk to people about their attitude problems, or that DeafRead needs to work on the commenting part, those things are completely out of Tayler and DeafRead's hands. V/Bloggers moderate comments on their v/blogs, not Tayler. Talyer is not in the counseling business to influence attitudinal changes.
Way to write, Banjo!
~ LaRonda
6/09/2008 9:00 PM
How many posts have you written about:
"the human rights in China, the AIDS epidemic all over Africa, the declining quality of education in America and Canada and many more."?
6/09/2008 9:14 PM
Anonymous, that's not the point. They were treating the situation as if it was going to cause the demise of Earth.
People can be pretty dramatic sometimes over little things.
6/09/2008 10:33 PM
LaRonda,
It is true that Tayler is not in the counseling business to influence attitudinal changes....but you obvious know that they do have the attitude problem and say we need to look the other way and learn to live with it.
That is not the solution to the problem.
6/09/2008 10:46 PM
Jon, show me an example where I would have initiated this "attitude" problem that you have indicated? Often times, if there was an "attitude" on my part, it was to respond to an "attitude" instigated by others. I'm really a nice person that rarely give anyone grief and many of the people you classified me with are also equally as nice too. Be careful what you say about others that you don't know well enough to make judgement.
The way I see it here is that, it is so easy for anyone to say things to others on the internet. Usually I'll speak out in defense of someone else if someone gives them a hard time when it comes to bias. I will stand up for anyone that gets mud thrown in their face for no reason at all.
Again, I'd suggest you not judge people too quick.
6/09/2008 11:16 PM
Banjo,
Feeding into the very dramatic fire you're trying to say is overkill?
Jon,
Your insulting me, especially with my full name in place, as a deficit thinker is grounds for libel. You want to go there?
Why don't y'all start building your bridges and "get over it."
We made our feelings known and removed ourselves from DeafRead and went off and made our own aggregator. You don't like that?
Get over it. Stick to DeafRead and their ignorant policies. We never asked you to switch sides or even support us.
In fact, stay where you are. Your conduct, mentality, and attitudes are not welcome where we are.
-Ben
6/10/2008 12:01 AM
Get my name right, nobody, unlike you , I have one.
DeafRead banned Richard Roehm, get your facts straight. They pushed him out and he was welcomed by DeafVillage.
-Ben
6/10/2008 12:08 AM
Der Sankt, did you find it necessary to get litigious with Jon here? Defend yourself since it's your right to do so, but please don't make legal threats here on my blog.
I don't necessarily agree with what Jon said, but getting reactive with each other isn't going to resolve any ongoing issues.
And yes, this whole situation is overkill.
In the end, DeafRead is still just a blog aggregator and Deaf Village is just a blog aggregator with different ideals.
It's great that there is now another blog aggregator specifically aimed at the deaf and hard of hearing bloggers and vloggers. That means more people will get heard in different places rather than just DeafRead, DeafPulse and more.
6/10/2008 12:11 AM
Name-calling is not to be tolerated here. A tip would be to be more proactive instead of reactive. That way, we can have a civilized discussion.
6/10/2008 12:14 AM
Candy, I think you are a nice person to deal with. I believe you have left comments on my blog on a few occasions.
I agree with you that we shouldn't be so quick to judge.
6/10/2008 12:40 AM
DeafVillage embraced Richard Roehm? Yep, its reputation increased by tenfold, ROTFL. DeafVillage is not an aggregator. It's a mindset. Good riddance.
6/10/2008 12:52 AM
DRMZZ,
What DeafRead did to Rachel and Richard is called censorship. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. To be frank, I'm surprised Banjo didn't touch that word at all in his entry.
Banjo,
I didn't threaten anybody with a lawsuit. I simply informed a certain commenter that what he is doing is breaking the law. And I will seriously follow through with what needs to be done if the commenter wants to go there.
He didn't state his comment in a factual manner rather than an opinionated one. Only at the very end he barely presents his final thought as an opinion.
That much should be clear enough.
-Ben
-Ben
6/10/2008 12:53 AM
replace didn't with did.
-ben
6/10/2008 12:55 AM
excuse me, Candy...what about you calling me " sort of tripping or something" you didn't know me and you judged me too quick!!! DUH! you think im stupid not understanding you??????? be careful!!!!! i cannot believe what a fool you are...
6/10/2008 1:05 AM
Ben, your claim of censorship actually is based upon sophistry. Typical blunder of yours. Not buying into it.
6/10/2008 1:12 AM
Banjo i love this line you said got me cracking up.
"I might as well sue the sea gulls for taking a dump onto my car if people are going to start suing blog aggregators."
Yes some people takes things too seriously and make a big thing out of molehill. Move along and dont hold grudges guys life is too short!!!!
6/10/2008 1:31 AM
Cheryl, If I said you were trippin, it's because you might have said something to me that wasn't true or factual. "you're trippin" isn't an insult. It's in the same vein as "you're wrong."
OH, what did you say to me before I told you, that you were trippin? Try to remember that. See, if you had been nice, I'd have been maybe nicer. But, trippin isn't an insult, nor is it name calling. Nor is it judging others. When you tell someone they are wrong about something they "said," that is not "judging."
drmzz, what happened was censorship. Everyone can view it differently, either by being biased or not. And we can continue to go back and forth forever and not agree on it. For me, the facts speaks for itself.
6/10/2008 1:52 AM
Candy, I'm thinking.. sour.
6/10/2008 2:01 AM
DMRZZ,
I'm thinking...fascist.
it's ok if you like censorship, the nazis did too.
Let's see how long you last with that mindset.
-Ben
Go look up censorship before you claim sophistry
6/10/2008 2:20 AM
DeafRead is a filtered blog aggregator. So by nature, they will practice censorship in what will be published and what will not be according to their guidelines.
It's ironic to scream censorship because that's exactly the purpose of a filtered blog aggregator. If they don't want a blog or vlog on their website, they can censor it if they want to. They have the right to do so.
You live in a free country, you and the others worked together to build a new blog aggregator as an counteractive action against DeafRead's policies.
The message was loud and clear, DeafRead heard you but they just don't agree with you.
There's no pleasing everybody. That's life, you have to take the bad with the good.
6/10/2008 2:27 AM
Banjo,
I wouldn't use filtering and censorship interchangeably. DeafRead is a specialized aggregator, in which, they expanded (DR Extra).
Filtering blogs and so forth to ensure it stays on track related to the issues and information that's been predetermined. That's called specialization.
DeafRead removed a blog, a specialized blog that was in perfect accordance to their issues and information. That is censorship not filtering.
-Ben
6/10/2008 7:53 AM
Banjo --
Ben is right.
I want to make a point is that Tayler and Deafread are not welcoming the Sorenson employees into the DR since Tayler has been promoting to destroy Sorenson and its products. He have encouraged us to sign the petition all along. Boy, am I so glad that I did not sign the petition!
So, what kind of the editorship that DR have done to them?
Nazism?
Facism?
Censorship?
All of the above: Yes!
White Ghost
6/10/2008 9:22 AM
White Ghost,
Nazism?
Facism?
Censorship?
That sounds like Alexander Graham Bell Association for the Deaf.
AGbell cooresponded with Hitler about eugenics!
AGBell opposes sign language.
Do you support AGBell/AVT's facism/censorship of Deaf people's rights to natural language, ASL?
Or you just don't like Tayler and brand him the likes of AGBell that destroyed thousands of
Deaf people's natural language and education?
6/10/2008 12:11 PM
drmzz ..
You'd know best about mindsets. I mean, you don't even have a doctorate yet and already are describing yourself as some sort of crockpot doctor.
Which reminds me .. the thing that makes successful con artists .. successful is their ATTITUDE. Have you ever met a successful con artist with a "bad" attitude?
Nope. Con artists will tell you what you want to hear.
We know what you are, "dr. mike."
Jon ..
See above.
:o)
Paotie
6/10/2008 12:16 PM
Paotie
no wonder Deafvillage sucks.
*laugh*
6/10/2008 12:21 PM
Anonymous ..
Right.
"employed volunteer"
Uh-huh.
:o)
Paotie
6/10/2008 12:41 PM
Drmzz,
I would be more comfortable with Dr. Mike than a con artist with a "bad sociopath" attitude.
Paotie...
See above.
6/10/2008 12:48 PM
Ben and Paotie, model deaf citizens? Divert from issues and resort to cheap talk as always. All I can say is good luck to the rats, err.. followers. BTW, site looks cool. Good luck. ASLAN yours, Mike. :)
6/10/2008 1:00 PM
Anonymous ..
Right. "Sociopath" came from a person who has claimed to having brain damage, dyslexia and other issues.
I am sure "dr. Mike" is treating him and has been.
Little wonder the DBC sucks.
:o)
Paotie
6/10/2008 1:00 PM
Anonymous at 9:22 AM, 10 June 08
You did not get the point I made.
It's about the conflict of interest DR editors are having right now.
White Ghost
6/10/2008 1:16 PM
Anonymous,
I fully support your right to believe in eugenics and promote it. That's freedom of speech. If you did some research, you'd see that a jewish lawyer from ACLU defended the neo-Nazi's right to freedom of speech...
sociopathic attitudes? hah.
Please people, stop throwing out words you have no idea what it means. Sociopathic people cannot relate to others and their feelings. Psychology has one solution for sociopaths...
Kill 'em all.
Now, see, I sympathize with Rachel and fully support her right to say what she wants to say. I get emotional with her and feel her anger...
You apparently can't.
So, who's the sociopath?
Hah.
-Ben
Deafvillage just begun, DeafRead was shit when it first started, basically, DR depended heavily on bloggers like Ridor, McConnell, and Berke for an audience...
Interesingly enough, only one of the bloggers above still is part of DeafRead. (for Ridor, his site is still down and considered inactive, his other blog is basically almost dead).
In due time, DeafVillage will rise and take hold.
6/10/2008 1:17 PM
Paotie, I may be a DBC supporter but I am not on the committee or mailing list. I'm not even going to the conference. I'm interested in the Dual language model. BTW little boy, your immaturity, whew.
6/10/2008 1:46 PM
Comparing DeafRead to Nazism is going too far. I would never call anybody a Nazi. I even think calling somebody a Grammar Nazi is incredibly rude.
Do not make light of the name of Nazism because it is not. Not when more than 40 million people died because of it.
I get Ben's point. But there is nothing I can do about it, the DeafRead just don't agree with the people who objected to the decision. I can understand why some people are angry.
White Ghost,
"I want to make a point is that Tayler and Deafread are not welcoming the Sorenson employees into the DR since Tayler has been promoting to destroy Sorenson and its products. He have encouraged us to sign the petition all along. Boy, am I so glad that I did not sign the petition!"
That is off the topic, but I should let you know that Tayler can consider that libelous too. Besides, he is not promoting to destroy Sorenson. He is pushing to put the pressure onto Sorenson to open up their directory.
Some people tried to intensify the situation making it appears more dramatic than it is. It's the same with this situation. People started jumping all over and getting all worked up. People love drama.
Just go on any highway and once there is a car collision, suddenly there is a traffic jam. Not because of the car collision, but because of the gawkers.
It's in human nature.
6/10/2008 2:00 PM
Banjo--
It's about the conflict of interest Tayler is having right now.
Tayler could have hurted Sorenson's advocating for the deaf community's needs and its employees. He was over the boundary. (I forgot about the open directory he was working on.)
Jared mentioned that Rachel was "ambitious" for doing her volunteering work.
However, Tayler has been pushing to all of us for signing the petition to open the directory. Therefore, he was too "ambitious."
As a result, it's the conflict of interest.
White Ghost
6/10/2008 3:26 PM
Der Sankt,
I did not know what Sociopathic means, I had to look up in google and first on the list is this,
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
Thank you and now I know.
6/10/2008 4:18 PM
A sociopath is a paotie who has antisocial personality disorder.
White ghost was married to the Sociopath of Paotie for three months. I agree with Anonymous at 9:22 AM, 10 June 08
Deafvillage sucks
*laugh*
6/10/2008 4:44 PM
Enough! Taking potshots at each other with the name-calling, it's getting juvenile.
Focus on the subject that Banjo wrote about here.
Ann_C
6/10/2008 4:55 PM
Yeah, I agree, these juveniles should stay at DeafVileage
6/10/2008 5:08 PM
I would really appreciate it if everybody would stick to the subject here. We're all adults here, let's discuss this in a civilized manner, alright?
Thanks.
It's not too much to ask for, is it? :-)
6/10/2008 6:10 PM
After reading all these post im sitting here wondering why you guys keep throwing words at each other in a boxing match it gets you no where only bruising your egos.
Really if you cant stick to the topic then dont say anything at all.
Using the word nazi that was pushing the envelope you should be shamed!!!
Deaf community is small and is bound to have some disagreements but you are all adults and act like one because it is getting so High school attitude.
Ciao !!!
6/10/2008 7:02 PM
Banjo and everyone,
I would like to explain my usage of the Nazi term here. You see, Banjo, Nazis did not just kill 40 million people, although I do think that number might be slightly exaggerated.
Nazis also burned books, oppressed ideas, and modified rules to suit themselves. They even went against their own kind when they deemed it appropriate.
Perhaps you don't think so, but, destruction of books, ideas, publications and so forth is far far much more dangerous than simply killing people. Everyone dies, myself included.
Ideas should not. Books should not. Discourse should never be oppressed. Nazis did that just as well as killing people.
Let's try to shift our perspective from Nazis being murderers of people to Nazis destroying ideas, books and so forth. DeafRead is not killing peopple but oppressing ideas, perspectives and discourse by removing blogs on feeble grounds.
Just like the Nazis.
-Ben
6/10/2008 7:44 PM
"DeafRead is not killing peopple but oppressing ideas, perspectives and discourse by removing blogs on feeble grounds."
That's quite an allegation. How is it any different from what Jon did here? He called you and the other bloggers/vloggers a bunch of deficit thinkers. As a response, you made a veiled legal threat toward him.
Spare me the bullshit, I know it was a legal threat. I know when I see one. Using the "Informing" defense is a poor excuse for the lack of self-control.
To quote,
"Your insulting me, especially with my full name in place, as a deficit thinker is grounds for libel. You want to go there?"
"grounds for libel"
This is not a veiled legal threat? Regardless of what you may say, it was a legal threat. I'm not putting words into your mouth, you said it yourself.
My suggestion is to be more proactive instead of reactive next time. Do not bluff or intimidate people here. I'm not going to put up with it.
Earlier, you mentioned that Tayler Mayer removed Richard Roehm from DeafRead. Did you ever bother to find out why? I know why he removed his blog and it was for a good reason. It had nothing to do with censorship. Apparently some people are still in the dark when it comes to Richard Roehm and his reputation on the internet.
I certainly hope you didn't buy into his story about how he was victimized by this and that. It's an old routine of his. I have known him for quite a long time, way before DeafRead came into existence.
It was his actions that got him banned from DeafRead and other places like AllDeaf.com, not his opinions.
Rachel, now that's a different story. The real question is, are people thinking with their emotions or their heads? I have seen quite a lot of emotional rants over it more than I have seen logical explanations from either sides.
If not, then like I said, it's all drama. People love drama. It's nothing new.
6/10/2008 7:46 PM
Insulting each other is juvenile. I just deleted some a few minutes ago.
6/10/2008 7:51 PM
Nazis were bad.
Hitler started the Nazis.
Hitler cooresponded with AGBell about eugenics
AGBell holocaust Deaf people's natural language and still doing it today.
But your people seem to forgive AGBell's history
So, Der Sankt, you should forgive Nazis's history
What say you?
6/10/2008 8:07 PM
This is what I posted on Paotie's blog in response to Der Sankt...
"I basically associated DeafRead people with the Nazis. Banjo and a couple others were appalled…and assumed that i made the comparison to the Nazi’s murdering people to the editors of DeafRead…
Stupidity has no limit, like Einstein once said…"
Appalled? Assumed? You just assumed these. :-)
I simply asked that you to refrain from using Nazism. It's about having class. I perfectly knew what you meant to start with. Nazism is an overused example and is often used lightly when it shouldn't be.
How about using novels like 1984, Fahrenheit 451 and more less-known novels as example?
Remember, you are the one getting all worked up over a blog aggregator.
I would understand if it was the state government or the federal government, but over a blog aggregator?
There is more to life than a blog aggregator.
http://www.paotie.tv/2008/06/07/new-deaf-aggregator-launched/#comment-3232
6/11/2008 11:28 AM
Seems to me the entire intenet ervolves around advertising and commercialism, even the fabled 'deaf community' uses it, indeed in the United Kingdom THE leading organisation representing 9 million with hearing loss and deaf issues in the UK, employs SIX full-time paid professional 'spin doctors' hired from the head-hunting agencies of London (england)<,to do it.
Heerrrmph, now does this mean I can insit on a BAN on them advertising Deaf support ? and for volunteers paid and otherwise to plug the services they provide ? Because they operate a COMMERCIAL business that sells deaf equipment, which as far as I am aware is for PROFIT, they aren't giving it away. I'm betting near EVERY agency of the 'Deaf' in the USA does the same..... Do we need to investigate every contributor to deaf.read to see if they ever benefited from this corporate and commercialised begging on our behalf ? That would mean near everyone deaf! (Have I talked the UK contributors right out of deaf.read I wonder :) ) If it simply Rachael was abusive,then a warning or two then out, would have been OK with everyone, but deaf.read dragged up commercialism, and that, was invalid an argument, a lot of peopel saw through straight away, was he leant on, by the deaf cultural purists, did he panic ? Did HIS sponsors object to CI online getting free publciity, ahhhh....we demand to know !
MM
6/11/2008 12:58 PM
Banjo,
You started this drama so I'm going to assume that you, along with everyone else you're criticizing, like the drama just as well.
As I've responded to your comment at Paotie: "Banjo,
I was in airports all day yesterday trying to keep up with the comments, so, please forgive me for not responding sooner. I believe there is a big difference in labeling someone a deficit thinker and associating a group with another.
One is libelous, the other is a comparison.
Oppression and censorship doesn’t start in the governments. Perhaps in Canada they do, but not in America. The limitations of personal freedoms start much closer to home…
If eenough people feel the same, they start to push for it in their government level (City, State, and Federal). In America, you give up your right, you never get it back. Benjamin Franklin said something along the lines of…If you give up a right for something else, you deserve neither that right nor the thing you gave up your rights for.
1984 isn’t real. Fahrenheit 451 is the threshold of which books begin to burn. Communism oppresses freedom of speech, Nazis oppressed dissenting thoughts. The comparison and analogy is fair. Both are real.
Because you’re willing to give up someone else’s rights. I believe then, you don’t deserve these rights. You don’t deserve to be heard, you don’t. You won’t deserve our defending your rights to say whatever you please because you willingly gave up someone else’s rights to that very thing.
Destruction of rights never start at the government, it really never does. It starts when a bunch of idiots think, oh, what they do bothers us, let’s shut them up. Desecrate them with violations of rules—rules that were NOT in place when their loss of rights began. It moves up and then gets in the government.
The only censorship allowed in America is when the masses demands for it.
You brought it up. I did not talk about it since the resignation of BOC from DR. Unlike you, Banjo, I have discussed in my entries about the state of Kenya, I have tried to spread awareness of iraqi refugees, I provide political news and insights, and I keep up with green news.
It’s kind of funny when you accuse us all of not writing about more important things like the chinese and so forth in your blog entry when I have done so.
Nobody reads them because nobody cares, you and I both know that quite well. So, you just had to bring up the politics of deafread to get that attention.
Talking about the chinese would have mustered for you probably 25 hits a day. How many did you get for talking about DeafRead?
-Ben"
I think I covered one part of it.
But, I was wrong for making a thinly veiled legal threat and I apologize. Really, you are right, that was a low blow from me and I have no excuses for it. I'm sorry.
I still stand by my Nazi comparison, I do believe it was fair.
-Ben
6/11/2008 1:19 PM
Ben --
You were *not* talking about the murdering/killing issue from the Nazis' regime. You never would have said. Neither am I. It's about the theory/concept.
Just like the crab theory.
I know your concepts/contexts pretty well.
I am sorry, Banjo if you think.....but it was *not* about the killing issue.
Psst...I am jewish but not practically a religion person.
White Ghost
6/11/2008 1:22 PM
White Ghost,
Thank you. :)
-Ben
6/11/2008 1:28 PM
White Ghost, please don't assume what I was thinking.
I knew that he was talking about the censorship. However, I don't want people to refer to Nazism lightly.
I have my reasons and no, it's not any of your business to know why. Let's keep it at that and respect my requests here.
6/11/2008 1:34 PM
Ben,
"But, I was wrong for making a thinly veiled legal threat and I apologize. Really, you are right, that was a low blow from me and I have no excuses for it. I'm sorry."
Thank you for acknowledging. I appreciate it.
"1984 isn’t real. Fahrenheit 451 is the threshold of which books begin to burn. Communism oppresses freedom of speech, Nazis oppressed dissenting thoughts. The comparison and analogy is fair. Both are real. "
Both of these novels share similar situations to Nazism regarding censorship.
The difference is, people actually died and their deaths should not be used in vain over a blog aggregator. It would be a different story if it involved a government.
Like I said before, I have my reasons for not wanting any Nazism comparisons. Leave it at that.
6/11/2008 1:37 PM
Another note to White Ghost, you might find this interesting...
They went after the people with disabilities. They sterilized the mentally challenged, then the deaf, blind, handicapped more. After that, they moved onto the followers of Judaism.
6/11/2008 1:39 PM
Banjo...
I understand.
I've always like your blog, tho.
I've bookmarked yours, :-)
White Ghost
6/11/2008 1:40 PM
White Ghost, thank you for the kind words. It's always nice to hear from you here.
6/11/2008 1:41 PM
Banjo --
I know about this history long time ago.
White Ghost
6/11/2008 1:43 PM
"Talking about the chinese would have mustered for you probably 25 hits a day. How many did you get for talking about DeafRead"
Well, it's true that I haven't written about China for a good while. I am thinking of writing a piece on it once the Olympics is approaching when more people would be interested. But yes, it's highly likely that I would get less hits than I would if I talked about DeafRead right now.
I'll admit to that. :-)
6/11/2008 2:27 PM
Banjo, I soooo agree with you!
I enjoy reading comments from different perspectives but when it comes to name calling (ad homenims, strawman arguments, and other fallacies), it's irritating.